Help pick 5 songs to share from Neumo's 2006-07-22 show

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Top 5 songs for release to fans

Poll ended at Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:47 am

01. Fire Island [5:07]
3
14%
03. Pushover [3:34]
1
5%
04. Teaspoon [4:29]
1
5%
05. Hindsight [4:59]
2
9%
06. Cinnamon [5:16]
1
5%
07. Scared Straight [4:33]
0
No votes
09. Ultimatum [6:01]
0
No votes
10. Honest [4:08]
2
9%
11. false start > New Girl [4:00]
5
23%
12. Rich Wife [5:09]
2
9%
13. Delicate Hands [4:13]
0
No votes
15. Blue Diamonds [3:51]
0
No votes
17. Give Me A Moment [5:26]
3
14%
19. Car Parts [4:07]
2
9%
 
Total votes: 22

etreewin
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Help pick 5 songs to share from Neumo's 2006-07-22 show

Postby etreewin » Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:47 am

Hey folks,

Cancelling this offer. It was a bad idea. I am not going to release any songs from this or the in-store recordings at this time. Possibly after the DVD is released for those songs that have not been used.

It really is a pretty simple issue -- if the recordings are commerically released by any one associated with the band or doc film then they fall under their copyright. Also pre-release may take away from any consumer desireability or profit (re-coop of losses...) for the copyright owners.

From the amateur recordists viewpoint, the places where I trade the music, whether my site, bt.etree.org, thetradersden.org, etc. only trade non-copyrighted material generally from recording-friendly bands in order to protect the interests of the musicians / copyright owners. Also we trade high quality versions - not lossy mp3s -- which are easy to sell to unsuspecting people as bootlegs. Once the DVD came out, then all these sites would need to pull the songs, torrents, and the songs could be in many places and people could be violating copyright without knowing it. What a hassle.

By releasing only a few songs, I was thinking that it would be easier to handle the copyright issues but a little reflection indicates that it is just going to be a hassle.

Both the band and the doc film makers already have copies of the show so hopefully it will make it into the DVD.

Maybe the doc film makers can use the poll results in deciding what is on the live show part of the DVD...

Sorry for the hassle. I didn't give this enough thought originally.
Last edited by etreewin on Thu Jul 27, 2006 3:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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longtimecoming
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Postby longtimecoming » Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:39 am

i dont remember which song, but please put some of the ends tage talk about my prom dress plus the song where he mentioned the pansy stuff, cause that was a reference to me on something i wrote on the ldubs myspace once. thanks. i want to hear honest. i have been crying over it for a while now, heh.

on a side note, all my emails as of late are from my stalker, who makes weird poems and writes words from harry potter books, i think its from the mess in the stranger about me n dan, lmao... heh..john...ROCKS!

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Karousme
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Postby Karousme » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:52 pm

*cough* NEW GIRL *cough*

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Unremarkable
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Postby Unremarkable » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:21 pm

Of course, I have to vote for Give Me a Moment

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sour29
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Postby sour29 » Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:48 pm

I was the first to vote and went with Give Me A Moment. For Unremarkable.

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icapants
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Postby icapants » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:05 pm

sour29 wrote:I was the first to vote and went with Give Me A Moment. For Unremarkable.


Doesn't he win with that song ENOUGH ALREADY? SRSLY, PPL.

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Moni
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Re: Help pick 5 songs to share from Neumo's 2006-07-22 show

Postby Moni » Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:28 am

etreewin wrote:I talked to the doc film makers last night and they are planning on releasing some live songs as part of the DVD documentary. So, I can't release the whole show broadly.


How do those two exclude each other? I would understand that if Adam and Jace wanted to release the whole show, you wouldn't be able to make the whole show available?... I'm sure there's a good reason for that, I just don't see it at the moment :)

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sour29
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Postby sour29 » Thu Jul 27, 2006 3:01 am

If you were told now, you wouldn't be surprised later! shhhh!

NatureBoy
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Postby NatureBoy » Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:16 pm

Hey folks,

When making the film it's never been my intention to withhold anything I have from fans, and in the past I've always encouraged sharing with permission of the band.

I'm still trying to navigate the maze of copyright issues and concerns as they pertain to the upcoming film - and to be honest these things hadn't crossed my mind until the conversation I had with etreewin over the weekend at the in-store shows.

I thought I'd have time to figure all this out when I was done editing the film in a month or two. That's not the case anymore.

I assure everyone that my intentions and motivations are of a legal and copyright nature to make sure no one gets hurt in this process, and not from a profit nature (no one makes an indie-film expecting to make any money).

It's my hope that once the film gets released and everyone gets a DVD in their hands that they'll be totally sated by the amount of content and all this will just be a speedbump to everyone getting what they want, which of course is the most awesomest Long Winters film evar!

If anyone has any thoughts or comments or concerns about any of this, or knows more about copyright law as it pertains to music and film, I'd love to hear from you. You can get a hold of me at apranica@dorsiafilms.com

Love,
Adam

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sour29
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Postby sour29 » Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:11 pm

If any of the footage from the DVD I put together would be of any assistance, let me know!

I only have one of the master tapes, though.

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Moni
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Re: Help pick 5 songs to share from Neumo's 2006-07-22 show

Postby Moni » Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:03 am

etreewin wrote:It really is a pretty simple issue -- if the recordings are commerically released by any one associated with the band or doc film then they fall under their copyright. Also pre-release may take away from any consumer desireability or profit (re-coop of losses...) for the copyright owners.


Question!
Don't the rights to [acoustic] recordings of this performance belong to the band (or whoever owns the rights to the songs in question), and the rights to the video performance belongs to the documentary film makers? That's at least what it'd be like in Europe... or used to be... haven't really caught up with the latest changes in EU-copyright issues.

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sour29
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Postby sour29 » Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:33 am

I think it's a shady area... with concert recordings, especially audience ones, I think the songs remain in the copyright of the band, but the recording itself (once it leaves the venue in question) belongs to the taper. Thus, the taper can do anything he wants with his tape, short of selling it without the band's permission. That's what I've been led to understand, anyhow.

But I think the main issue at hand is that the Documentary crew has both a video and SBD recordings of the show. If a recording of said show is released now, when/if the Doc crew releases their (likely superior version), people will generally be less likely to purchase it because they have already heard the show -- in theory. It's the same idea as MP3s being leaked before the album's release date.

etreewin
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Postby etreewin » Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:53 am

sour29 wrote:I think it's a shady area... with concert recordings, especially audience ones, I think the songs remain in the copyright of the band, but the recording itself (once it leaves the venue in question) belongs to the taper. Thus, the taper can do anything he wants with his tape, short of selling it without the band's permission. That's what I've been led to understand, anyhow.

But I think the main issue at hand is that the Documentary crew has both a video and SBD recordings of the show. If a recording of said show is released now, when/if the Doc crew releases their (likely superior version), people will generally be less likely to purchase it because they have already heard the show -- in theory. It's the same idea as MP3s being leaked before the album's release date.


Actually, in the US, copyright law strongly protects the creator of the intellectual property. This is not the case in many other regions of the world (e.g., China, Italy before EU). By default the band always owns the performance and no one can profit or use it unless the band has specifically given permission or turned over the copyright. So actually the recordist/taper has zero rights in the US. And, even if a band provides permission to record and distribute a show, they can reverse that decision and withhold distribution (the Grateful Dead did this recently with their 1000+ SBD recordings that had been released for free but now the band wants to sell them on Itunes and related music services). Of course, it can be expensive and impossible to enforce in practice, and a jury may not agree with the recording artists sutit, but the law and precedent is clearly behind the original performers rather than any recordists or distributors of live recordings.

As I noted above, besides the "sales may be affected" issue (which is debatable...), the most pressing copyright issue for me is that if the show is released and then spreads to many websites for sharing live music (sites that allow distribution of live shows that have not been officially released), all of these sites are in violation of copyright once the show or song is officially released. This is a hassle for the volunteers that run these free music sharing sites (e.g., bt.etree.org). So it is best to avoid this potential hassle / copyright violation as well as to protect the band's and doc film makers interests. Again, I hadn't thought of this issue before posting the offer and apologize for this....

The reality is that many people stealth record bands and trade unauthorized live performances. That being said, most traders/recordists never trade commercially-released / copyrighted performances or albums because they respect that the musicians have to earn money also. Most bands look the other way at trading of live performances or view it as too expensive to deal with in the legal arena, given that their income stream is not dependent on these live recordings.


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